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Post by nicolerussell on Jun 8, 2005 22:33:22 GMT -5
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Post by Marie on Jun 9, 2005 1:21:05 GMT -5
Yes it is very sad Nicole. But IMO the saddest part is that it is the result of irresponsible pet buyers and the uncaring pet trade. People just buy pets on impulse with no thought to the care and committment that comes with it. The pet trade feeds on this. Pet stores will give bad information and sell inappropiate accessories just to make the sell. Breeders will indiscriminately over breed the animals where they are so cheap. People buy them not realizing that the price doesn't reflect the real cost of owning them. Then they end up with pets they can't handle, afford, or are bored with. Given that they were irresponsible in buying the animal, they just toss the animal in an environment that they weren't originally from and were not meant to be. These people are the ones that should receive the most blame for situations like this. I may not agree with the reactions of the people that want to eliminate the iguanas, but I do realize it did not start with them. ???I wonder sometimes if the more popular and rarer reptiles are the future green iguanas of tomorrow. Will breeders looking to make more profit move to breeding other more popular reptiles on a huge scale eventually and flooding the market like with the green iguana. Is our enthusiasm to own these wonderful creatures going to spur the pet trade to move to more profitable reptiles? Our economy is supply and demand. Demand spurs the supplier to work to supply more which in turns can spur interest among consumers and so forth--a vicious cycle. I am in no way saying that we should keep people from owning any legal pet though. But given human nature I can see what has happened with the green iguana happening with other kinds of lizards and for that matter other exotics. :'(Humans in general make me so terribly sad. :-/And very angry. Most of the problems with the environment and the other living beings that we share this planet with are or were caused by us humans either directly or indirectly. Of course there are some that care but they can only do so much and it is so hard to undo the damage that is done. :-*But we do have to try even if the odds are against us.
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Post by ChamZilla on Jun 9, 2005 7:37:05 GMT -5
This is discusting. But it happens all over the world. Look at the Cane toad that they introduced into habitats to control other insects. It has also grown out of control and nothing eats the thing cauz it tastes like crap. People in Mexico and places like that eat Iguana's. I know this because my bf's dads x gf was from there. She says they have them on little strings in there yards and when they get fat enough they eat them, or they use the females to produce eggs to eat them. People are creatures of habit, and it is true we are a supply and demand world. If there isn't enough of it, someone somewhere will make more and charge more until there are too many then the price will drop and petshop animals will be let free. Which doesn't say much about humans. But, on the other hand is it better for us to play god with overabundanced animals, than it is for them to go extinct when there arn't anymore? In Canada there are lots of animals that have become habaitat extinct. Like here in Southern Ontario, there used to be Wild Turkey, Wolf, Mountain Lions all kinds of stuff like that. And do you think you see any of those now? No. But our government now that there are none of these left is working hard to repopulate the wild turkey population (not that they would do it for an animal that could kill a human like a mountain lion, or cougar.) People in the world will complain no matter if there are none or lots of something. We (people on this board) are animal lovers for the most part. We rescue and help out the green iguana and other kinds of iguana's. But what makes it right for people to breed and breed and breed there animals? Nothing but no one is going to stop it. It sickins me to read articles like that one. I know that one animal has hardly anything to do with another, unless they use eachother for food sources. But all in all humans will complain no matter if there are 100,000,000 iguana's or if there are 500 iguanas. In human nature there is no happy medium for a large population. So how do people know when to stop? People here also have trappers licences. They trap raccoon, fox, muskrat and other things. But how long before all of these animals are irraticated from our lands? Just like for the iguana. This year there may be lots, but what about next year? Or the year after that? Or ten years after that? How is it that we were given permission to play god with other animals and habitats? We wern't. And yes it is also true with more rare species. They will also be breed until they are so popular, or they will die off and be very rare or extinct. There are two ends to the scale of life, we as people need to find a happy medium. But we don't. Look at the poor blue iguana. It is in danger now but who's saying that it can't make a come back? Or worse. There are balances in life and humans need to understand that. We live where we live to be happy and live WITH the animals that are around. If you own a 2000$ rare tree and an animal ate it, you would be angry. But if it was your animal it would be different. It would make you upset but you'd get over it. Which is what people need to do, get over it. People make me so angry sometimes, always thinking that they own the whole world and its at our disposal. It isn't. And the world will only put up with it for so long. Before everything becomes extinct, one species at a time. Nothing in life is forever or gaurenteed. Neither is the fate of the green iguana.
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Post by nicolerussell on Jun 9, 2005 16:52:44 GMT -5
Quote: At first they're a novelty, especially the bright green ones," Rollie Martin said. "But as they get older, they get uglier."
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Post by Marie on Jun 9, 2005 17:10:21 GMT -5
Everyone has a right to their opinion and everyone does have one. Not everyone is an iguana type person. Some like cats, some like dogs, and some don't like any animals. I don't get upset over someone not liking an animal. I only object to the actions they take. There are many out there that don't like animals but would never be cruel to one. I know of one person who disliked cats but found a helpless kitten and took it in. He has found he is highly allergic to them and is finding a home for it now though. So disliking an animal or thinking it is ugly is not the problem. Again I say it is the irresponsible and uncaring people, that released wild unnative animals into an environment not equipped to deal with the population, that is the problem. And the uncaring pet trade that preys on the ignorance and laziness of the human. Those people didn't ask to have iguanas dumped in their back yards. Again I don't condone cruelty to iguanas or any animals but I do understand those owner's frustration and anger. I myself would probably just let them be. It would be different if iguanas were native to Florida but they aren't. Sometime nonnative animals can and do cause havoc and destruction in an ecosystem. Irresponsible owner's are also the reason some states have or are considering banning iguanas. Stephanie I know that thinking of eating iguanas is like thinking of eating our pet dog or cat for you and me. But iguanas are not pets in the area that people come from that eat them. They are more like chicken rabbit, squirrel, frogs or deer. In fact they say that they taste like chicken. Some of them would have no meat at all if it wasn't for being able to go catch iguanas. They don't have the money to go buy other stock to raise. I am not a vegan or vegetarian so I do not feel right in judging anyone for eating some form of other meat. It is only when the animal is kept in cruel manners or killed cruelly that I object. Now where I live, many have been in areas where iguanas are eaten or know people who have eaten them. I get told all the time that iguanas are eaten. My response is fine as long as you leave mine or any one else's pet alone. I have other responses for those that make stupid jokes though.
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Post by ChamZilla on Jun 9, 2005 21:48:37 GMT -5
yes well said on the eating part.
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Post by jeremyhaas on Jun 10, 2005 15:34:04 GMT -5
One of the sites I was reading up on refered to them as jungle chickens. Not only do people eat the iggys but their eggs as well are considered quite the delicasy. It is hard to belive one mans dinner could be anothers loved pet. I know I couldn't even concider them as food, well unless maybe I am stranded on an island with no other options. bad topic though. Oh and I disagree with the quote. Just so happens that my 10yr old is nearly as colorful as my 2yr olds and just as sweet natured, I think them "getting uglier" can only be caused if the owner does the same. I am sure there are exceptions but...
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Post by Marie on Jun 10, 2005 17:52:57 GMT -5
I believe the quote came not from an owner but from a person who wan'ts the feral iguanas gone. He has a right to his opinion just like we have a right to think he is wrong.
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kessa
Member
love your pets as if they were your children, and they will love you as if you were there parents
Posts: 142
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Post by kessa on Jun 10, 2005 21:03:53 GMT -5
thats awful i understand that there are a lot of people who don't feel the way we do about our Iggy's and that a lot of people eat them what i don't understand is if they are such a problem there then why are pet stores allowed to still sell them and others to breed them?"At first they're a novelty, especially the bright green ones," Rollie Martin said. "But as they get older, they get uglier." i believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. i have been around some very large Iggy's and thought they were just gorgeous with the different color patterns and that no two look exactly the same. i do how ever think that if they have to destroy them than the lethal injection is better than making them suffer by freezing them to death. :-[i have to say that my baby was bought on impulse, but not by me it was my birthday present last year from my children.. i thought that he was precious then and still do, a lot of time and money later i still feel the same as the day he was handed to me in his little kritter keeper:) i love him very much and it not only makes me mad that people would treat Iggy's this way but it also makes me sad to think that that could be my lil barney over there. kessa
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Post by Marie on Jun 10, 2005 21:24:12 GMT -5
Kessa,
I am not saying everyone who buys on impulse are bad owner's. Only the ones that don't take responsibility for their actions. Some when they realize what a huge committment it is do step foward and do the right thing and even find that the rewards outweigh the costs. But many just feel that it is just a commodity to get rid of. Those are the ones that I refer to.
As for stopping fhs Pet trade and Breeders it takes laws and the willingness to enforce them. I should also mention the use of iguanas (or any animal) as prizes being a problem also. But as long as there is a demand and no restrictions they are going to continue. To reduce the demand we need to be out there educating people.
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Post by kukla on Jun 11, 2005 0:48:52 GMT -5
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Post by prismwolf on Jun 11, 2005 23:57:58 GMT -5
I'm going to put in my opinion in here.
I did not read the link to the article, but if it's to do with the wild iguana population in FL (Palm Beach in the link kinda hints at it)...or something thereabouts...then yes...they have a serious problem with the wild igs. They are competing with the native wildlife for the natural fauna, eating peoples expensive landscaping, when agressive males are in season they are attacking the locals. We all know how dangerous iguanas can be...even the "socialized" ones.
I hold accountable not so much the people that release them as the government (locally and nationally) for not controlling the means in which the iguanas are distributed to begin with. Dealers, whether they be petstore or carnival, should be licensed to sell as you need to be for other exotics such as hedgehogs and sugar gliders. They are wild animals...they are exotic...and they can be dangerous as well as carriers for salmonella.
I would love to see iguanas banned from being sold in the pet trade. I would love for all exotics to stay where they belong. There are some animals, large and small, that have no business becoming pets. Until that happens, we need better legislation to protect the animals from those people that are out for that money maker. They should be made to take an exam on proper care from lighting to nutrition and everything in between. They should be made to carry up-to-date pamphlets to go with the animal. If these conditions are not met, their license is forfeit and a citation (complete with a fine)is handed to them.
The people of FL have a right to what they had pre-ig. There are not many ways to control these "rats". When you figure one female can lay up to 60 eggs...some less...a few more...they are reproducing at alarming rates. I would love nothing more than to find a solution that would help everyone...but I'm not that smart. This is a biggie. No easy answers.
JMHO from one who owns...or has owned...many different species of exotics.
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Post by Marie on Jun 12, 2005 4:55:37 GMT -5
No matter what the law is or isn't, all adults should take responsibility for their own actions. People don't want laws to control what they want to do but they always want laws to control what others are doing. IMO it is a real shame that we have to have the government make us do what is right.
The thing is the government is all of us--We The People. We are the one's who vote them in. We have to make them pass those laws and force them to enforce those laws. They are not a seperate entity from us. The thing is they represent all of us and that includes those who are irresponsible (and feel they have the right to be irresponsible) and they vote too. No matter how you look at it, humans are the one's responsible.
I would like to say I appreciate everyone stating their opinion and participating in this discussion. There is no easy answer to the problems that the article addressed or to the causes of those problems. No matter who is to blame some solution will need to be found. I hope whatever it is it is humane to the innocents of all of this the Green Iguanas.
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Post by ChamZilla on Jun 12, 2005 9:58:05 GMT -5
This is also true in Canada, where irrisponsible breeders and owners of animals are cauzing everyones animals to be banned. Like the pit bull. Some of those dogs are great and Good family dogs. The people should be punished not the animal.
Hedgehogs in Tecumseh Ontario are illegal to own there as they are considered exotic pets. They can not be bought or sold in that town. This has helped a lot with some of the exotic pet trade in southern Ontario.
Well said everyone, everyone has a right to there own opinions and this is a great debate.
Steph
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